Paralegal and Investigative Assistant Reg Clay is the creator and co-host of The Yay podcast, where he interviews other Bay Area theatre actors about life in the theatre. In this episode, we learn how the stability of his day job allowed him to grow as a professional theatre actor with more than 15 years of experience. We talk about balancing time commitments with a day job, the theatre industry shift to zoom auditions, and how to use best practices from your 9-5 in your creative work.
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Amora Brown (00:03):
Hi everyone. Thank you for tuning in to my very first podcast called Corpartainment. I am your host Amora Brown, and we will be using this time to talk to a Bay area actor named Reg clay. He's an actor play, right? And he's even published in place as well as well. Not only that, but he has extreme knowledge in the tech play space as well. He was a stage manager. He did light and sound and operations. Guess what? In his day job for 23 years, his nine to five day job, he's a paralegal. So if you don't think that you can be able to participate in your creative role, know that you can, because if a paralegal can do it. And you know, he's out taking care of the city and the town. You can definitely do it as well, too. Thanks for having me on today. I mean, thanks for coming on today.
Reg Clay (01:09):
Not a problem at all. It's great to be on.
Amora Brown (01:11):
Beautiful. So as a paralegal and as an actor, playwright, and just overall, just a publisher of plays, how are you able to do it all? Like tell us a little bit about how you got started in this ability to balance the two.
Reg Clay (01:31):
Well thank you for having me on, I published one play and, you know, hopefully more will be in the words I began. So I live in the Bay area, but I am originally from Washington DC. I went to an arts high school and I went to NYU for undergraduate drama. And then I went back to Washington DC to do day work, basically to working in the federal government agency. And I came to the Bay in 1997. And I guess the first thing that I really wanted to do as a lot of young budding actors or creatives is to have some, some stability so that while I'm doing the creative stuff, I actually can pay the bills and pay rent and all that sort of stuff. So making sure that I had, you know, some skills to do regular work was very important.
Reg Clay (02:18):
You know, I think one of the, one of the best things that I did was to basically build up my resume for, you know, just doing the day job. The very, very, very few actors can come out of school and immediately be a success where you don't have to worry about a day job. You can just work and make money doing what you love to do, which is acting very, very few of the folks that I graduated with Jesse Martin, who is a course he has done a bunch of cool things. He was in law and order and Shondra Wilson, I think she was in ER, but those are really the only two. And I mean, when I was at NYU, there were tons and tons of kids, all of us had the exact same dreams, but everyone doesn't get the big piece of the pie.
Reg Clay (03:03):
So I think to answer your question, balancing your schedule, I think is very important and it takes good focus to know, you know, what, what you're going to do during the day. And if you are going to take on an acting assignment, then you know that you have to, you know, tell yourself, okay, I got to get off at five and I need some time to study the script and learn my lines and get off book. Or if it's tech, I need time to, I don't know, do whatever the director wants me to do, or if it's set building, I need to build the set or whatever, and also letting your the people at the day job know what you do. So I've, I've, I've always told my supervisors, Hey, listen, I'm involved in acting. So I want to make sure that my work schedule will allow me to do the other things that I want to do creatively. And if they're on board with that, and if you can honor your day schedule and also honor, you know, your schedule for the production, then I think it all works fine. So I think the real key is just your own personal organization skills. The more organized you are and the more diligent you are and sticking with your schedule, I think the better you'll be so that you don't off your day job folks and you don't off the product.
Amora Brown (04:09):
That's really cool. I guess my up question is like, listen, it we're at a job and we need this job. How can we do it if they don't support us? Like there's some companies that are okay with people having like a life outside of their work. And then there's some companies that are like, no matter what, you can't drop what you're doing for anything other than this job. So it's like, what would you say? Or what would be some advice you give to people that don't really have the luxury of like having a flexible job that works with their schedule?
Reg Clay (04:35):
That's a very good question. Usually I'm very upfront. I think a lot of people run into the problem of not being upfront, maybe because they're afraid to somebody off. So you may agree to something that later on you can't really agree to because you've made another promise to someone else. And I think that's when you run into a problem with every job that I've had. And you know, I've worked in the DA's office and it's a government job. So there's no such thing as working overtime. There've been a couple of times where I've had to work cases. And I know that the cases, because, you know, there's so much unpredictability with the criminal justice system, let's say, you know, you're doing the trial. And you know, after the court's over, then we have to process all sorts of documentation to set up for, you know, the next court date.
Reg Clay (05:23):
My, my schedule gets really, really wonky when it comes to that. But usually if I know that I'm going to be entering trial, then I know that I probably won't be doing any theater. So if, if I run into an issue where the office, if, if, if my manager tells me, Hey, I need you to work overtime. I can tell. And I have a good enough working relationship with my boss to say, Hey, listen, I've got another life, you know, after five o'clock. And our deal is that I get off at five and that's it. If anyone is working at a job and you've made an agreement before you took the job that you are, you know, you're getting off at five, or if you're doing overtime, then it's only after you agree to do the overtime. You know that you have the time to do the overtime, but nothing sprung on you.
Reg Clay (06:13):
If you don't have that relationship where you can talk to, you know, whoever your boss is it, I don't want to, I don't want to be crass to say, you may need to find another job because a lot of people don't have that luxury, but you, I think you can afford to have a heart-to-heart conversation with your boss to say, Hey, listen, I'm dedicated to this job, but also have another life. And I have the right to live my other life without you, my boss saying, listen, you need to work overtime. Or you need to take time off of your free time to do whatever I want you to do, because it may not be theater. It may be that you have a child. It may be that you're taking care of your parents or, you know, other things. There've been plenty of times where I've told lawyers who are not conscientious of the fact that I have time.
Reg Clay (07:01):
I'll tell them, Hey, listen, you're asking me to work overtime, but I haven't agreed to this. And I'm doing other things. I just want you to be aware that I know what you want me to do is important, but you can't do this because that's not what I agreed to when I first took this job. So I think being assertive is very, very important. And that can be scary because you're worried about losing your job. You worried about off someone, but you have to know your value if you know your value and you make that very clear. When you first take the job, you sort of set the line and you know that, you know, supervisor, if they even come to you they'll know what your answer is because you gave them the answer. When you first took the job, it is very tough. It's a, it can be a very tough conversation, but I think it's essential. It's something that you need to have and you need to have it sooner than later. Not just when you get another job, you're acting job, but beforehand.
Amora Brown (07:55):
You know, that's, that's a really good point setting that understanding in the very beginning so that people already kind of know what your motive is, which leads me into my next question. You mentioned something earlier, when we were talking before about managing physical self, I asked you, I said, how do you have the energy to do everything? And you said, managing physical self is really important. So can you talk a little bit about what you meant by that?
Reg Clay (08:19):
Well, sure. So I'm 51 years old and I don't really feel that old. I've always felt that acting sort of makes you young because you never know what role you'll take. You know, you may take a, a role of a teenager. We did one production where there was a 50 year old woman and she had to play a 20 year old. She did an amazing job. And a lot of folks were like, wow, she's how old is she really? But, you know, managing physical self is really just taking care of yourself, making sure you eat right, making sure you exercise, squeezing in that time between your day job, your acting gig, and also whatever else you're doing. Let's say you're taking care of the house or you have kids or what have you, but taking care of your physical self is important because acting can be very, very vigorous.
Reg Clay (09:06):
You know, you have no idea what the director is going to ask you to do. You have no idea what roles you're going to take and the more physically active you are, then the more viable you are with whatever, with, the role. If you lose energy real, real quick, that limits your ability to, to take on, let's say certain roles. And also it, even if you get the role, if you just taper out, if you just tank out or what have you, because you don't have the energy for it, then it's going to be hard to manage both your day job and also the acting. It's one of those soul searching things. You have to sort of look at yourself in the mirror to say, how disciplined can I be? Not only in managing my schedule, but also managing my physical self? Will I take the sacrifice of maintaining my health and, and doing the exercises, whether just beyond the weekend, you know, like every morning, you know, I'll do a little bit of exercising.
Reg Clay (09:59):
Sit-Ups, push-ups lifting weights, that sort of stuff, walking to make sure that I have the energy to do both my day job and also do a theater gig because on a typical day where I'm working and also doing a theater gig, I'm usually at the office at, let's say seven in the morning, I get off at five. I have to quickly go to, you know, my theater gig, which usually opens at seven, do a three hour rehearsal at 10, get home at 11 and then go to sleep, get as much sleep as I possibly can until, you know, the next morning. And it's almost like being an athlete. And I think a lot of theater, if you're an actor is, is very much like athletics and, you know, being in game shape and knowing that you can, you know, have the energy to do it all. And if you know that you don't, then it's one of those things where you may have to reconsider, you know, what you want to do or how active you want to be involved in theater. Does that make sense?
Amora Brown (10:56):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. You know, when I was working in tech, I made it my business to use all of the perks that they had just available to me downstairs in our building. We had a free gym that we could use. So I made it my business to come in early, go down there and run and kind of like set a goal for myself every day. And that goal would change every month. So I might say, okay, I'm going to run one mile by the end of the month. And then I up it, you know, a little bit at a time over time. And that, that was just really like a really cost efficient way to just use the tools that they have. Also, I know a lot of tech companies also have gym benefits where they give you like so much money towards that. I feel like it's really important to like take advantage of all of the perks that they have and reinvest that into yourself as well, too. Cause that's what it's for.
Reg Clay (11:45):
Yeah. And not only that, but I mean, cause there was a time where I did a lot of musical theater, like the Douglas Morrison theater I was involved and I think four musicals, you know, every single year that they had it and with musicals, you're not just acting, you're singing, you're dancing, you're doing all sorts of stuff. And I, and I I've never had a a gym membership at all. Basically I just, basically I did a lot of walking and I did a lot of exercising at my, in my own home. So I'm not necessarily suggesting that everyone has to, if you have those perks at the office, that's fantastic. And you should take advantage of that, but you don't necessarily need that. But getting back to, you know, the physical health, if you're involved in, let's say a musical and you know, you may be the actor that you just want to do drama. You just want to do comedy. You, you know, I believe that as an actor, we should not limit ourselves. We can get cast in anything, then we should go for it. But when it comes to things like musicals, you've got to be, you know, physically ready to do the dance moves that they ask you to do when it comes to singing breath, exercises and breath management is very, very important because again, with those long notes, right, you don't have the breath to do it, then forget about it, you know, you're done.
Amora Brown (12:58):
Yeah. that's, that's so true. Now another point that you made up that I thought really hard about if you dream too much and you don't have the discipline, you can screw yourself over. And that kind of stuck with me because while I was sitting at my day job, a lot of times I would watch music videos. I will listen to music. I would watch interviews by other artists and I would kind of just dream. And, you know, one day I was like, what I'm going to do is when I'm going into that. And I remember I was watching an interview by a bill Duke and he was just like, you know, people are making movies with their I-phones, ain't nobody waiting. And I was just like, you know what, he's right. And that's kind of what started me on this journey of making this podcast. But I want to hear from your perspective and your guidance, what you meant by that. And some tips to get people up and ready to start putting at least a little bit of effort in to what they love.
Reg Clay (13:56):
I think that's a very, it's probably the most important you know, aspect of theater or the arts because everyone has a dream, but you need the foundation of discipline to make it happen. There's so many individuals who they, you know, they they're on YouTube. You know, they want to be the next Justin Bieber, or, you know, whoever the, you know, the great YouTube star is thats making, you know, millions of money of dollars, but you really need the discipline. Let's say, it's music. You want to do a music thing. Well, you have to discipline yourself to lay down the tracks and to take the time to discipline yourself on it. You know, what instrument that you play, or your singing ability, you know, networking with individuals who is going to help put your tracks together. And also the networking, as far as a PR, promoting your stuff, all of that takes discipline.
Reg Clay (14:46):
When it comes to acting, you know, you, there are a lot of folks who just to jump on the stage, but sometimes you need acting school. You may need to have a, a, you know, an acting teacher, the discipline of getting off book and making sure that you, you know, that you're not paraphrasing because you know, it's going to screw up your singing partner. The discipline is sort of the, the foundation where you can lay your dreams on because everyone has a dream, but very few people have the discipline, the wherewithal to work, to make your dreams happen. And that's something that me and Norman we talk about on the Yay all the time, our podcast that we daily have, and we've interviewed so many individuals who have day jobs and they toil and toil away working on their dreams. Like I remember Samuel L. Jackson, you know, it took him, I think he was in his forties before he actually hit it big with a spike Lee.
Reg Clay (15:40):
I think it was spike Lee. I wanna say it was jungle. Well, jungle fever was the first one that I know him on, but I think he was in, he may have been in school days, but any case he did community theater for pretty much his entire career, you know, for maybe 20, 30 years before he hit it big. Morgan Freeman did the same thing with he was on Sesame street, of course, I'm of the age where I remember him on the electric company before he hit a big with shawshank redemption, and then he took off. So it takes a long time. I mean, some are lucky enough to hit it off big, but it takes a while to hone your craft. And while you're waiting to hit it big, take this time to do the regional theater stuff, focus on your talents, you know, focus on intricacies that you need to do away with, you know, your sticks or your bad habits or whatever.
Reg Clay (16:30):
So by the time you get caught up by Jordan Peele or by someone else, you've had the discipline to really hone your talents. So that you're ready for the big time. One last thing that I'll say when I was at Duke Ellington, we had Paul Winfield come over and Paul Winfield, he played Dr. Martin Luther King. He's been on TV a lot. I'm sure there's a Wikipedia page. But I asked him when I was as a kid, I was like, what happens if we do all of this work, all of this training, and we never get discovered, and I'll never forget what he told me. He says, well, that's not the question. The question is, will you be ready when you do get discovered? That's that just tightens up what my point is, as far as disciplining yourself,
Amora Brown (17:12):
Right? And it's like the reason why that question is not really relevant either, especiallyif you have like a nine to five, is that you're not really losing anything. You're still working on something that's really important to you creatively. But at the same time, having some sort of income coming in that can pay your bills and keep food on the table and all that other stuff, all the needs being met while also working creative thing. I have a question for you is kind of random. While you were at work, doing your paralegal work, have you ever found people there to help you with your creative career? Like have you ever ran into anyone that helped you along way in your journey creatively? Because one thing that comes to mind to me is I'm thinking like it's important to like, not only network with people that are in the arts, but also kind of talk to people that you work with, because it's surprising as many people who are interested in creative fields at work, that just don't talk about it because that's not the point of being at work, but I'm curious to know if you've found any opportunities of connecting with people in the arts while you're doing your day job.
Reg Clay (18:15):
An interesting question. There are a couple of folks you'd be surprised when I tell people, Oh, I wrote a play or, you know, I'm going to, here's a flyer. Once you come to this thing that I'm in, that I'm doing, and they'll be like, Oh my goodness. You know, and they just open up and they'll talk about their little artistic thing that they're doing on the side. I had a a office mate of mine she's retired now, but she's involved. She was involved in drums. She did, she had like a little drum circle and she would do these shows. And although that's not theater, that was her little arts thing. And then another friend of mine, actually, a lawyer a white guy who you know, it was a lawyer and I'd had, and I had no idea that he was artistic at all, but he talked about his writing a book.
Reg Clay (18:56):
He was like, Oh, wow, I'm writing a book on my own on the side. So everyone has their own little artistic side, you know, artistic, you know, thing on the side. And it just shows you that there are so many individuals who they still hold on to their little dreams. They may not be working as hard as we are as far as, you know, you know the grind of still doing the theater work and, you know, trying to make it, but they haven't really, really let go. And so I've met a, quite a few individuals in my day job who, you know, are involved in the arts. I haven't met any acting friends of mine who do the day job that I do, but other folks like, you know, there's another lawyer, who's a saxophonist. And that shocked me as well. So it's fascinating. What happens when you tell someone that you're in the arts field and they sort of brighten up and they say, Oh, well, let me tell you what I'm doing too.
Amora Brown (19:50):
I used to work at Dropbox and there were these guys that came in, cause we had like a black Dropboxers event and they came in and they all worked for LinkedIn. Some were engineers, some worked in sales and they worked together and made a movie about being a black man in tech. And I thought that was just so cool. I was like, wow, these guys are actually really going for it. I can't remember their name right off the bat, but if I remember it, I'll put it in the description notes or something. I can't remember. But yeah. So another question that kind of comes to mind for me is what are some ways that you can think of that someone can build their resume, especially during this weird COVID climate?
Reg Clay (20:29):
Well, I think the number one thing, there's so many budding writers and there are so many theater groups, especially now during COVID who are looking for either readers or creatives for zoom content there. I mean, I think every single theater company, as of right now are asking folks to participate in doing a zoom readings and you know, and quite a few of them were, are paying. They don't pay an awful lot. As a matter of fact, I did one for Dragon's nest and they have a monthly one act reading festival that they do once a month and they invite people to come in and watch, but they're also inviting actors to participate. And they'll basically email you a script in PDF format. And it's a good practice in doing cold readings and cold readings is something that us actors we do all the time when it comes to auditions.
Reg Clay (21:18):
And it's, it's good practice. Even if you screw up a little bit early, even if you're not as talented, it's still good practice. And it's a good way of sort of getting your kinks or, you know, your, your bad habits out of the way without actually auditioning or without actually being on stage. So I think the zoom recordings and pretty much every theater company is doing it. So I think anyone can do a little Google search to find out Bay area theater companies, zoom readings. I know San Francisco playground is doing it. I know town hall theater is doing it. The Douglas Morrison theater plathos productions, pretty much all of them. They do have their veteran actors that they'll call, but everyone's looking for, you know, new talent. Who's the newest, who's the new person, who's the new, you know, wave of talent. And especially if you are a person of color, because, you know, especially after the the George Floyd protest and the black lives matter, there's been an August Wilson sort of phenomenon where everyone is grabbing an August Wilson play and doing it. There's a wealth of opportunities out there for new and budding actors. So zoom recordings, that's the way to go.
Amora Brown (22:25):
I'm thinking like getting more involved in that as well, too, and then kind of setting up a process of showing people how to get involved in that and like, maybe even doing your own monologues as well, too, and recording that as well, posting it on Instagram, making Tik TOK videos of it I'd have to on my Instagram page where I was doing, like somebody's on their tick-tock hat, like a monologue when it was a dialogue, and then you go back and forth for the person. It was really fun. So that's a really good way as well, too, just to keep it fresh.
Reg Clay (22:52):
Yeah. I did a $900 job I was actually. So I was on Facebook and they posting cause industrials are doing a lot of commercials for the internet. There are a lot of companies, instead of putting it on the actual television commercials, they'll create commercials for just the internet. And usually, you know, like when you watch YouTube, you know how YouTube is interrupted every five minutes because there's a commercial, but you know, those are actors who are, you know, getting the job. And so I got the job by posting a monologue on YouTube and they were like, Hey, do you have a monologue that we can see? And I just gave them the link. So you're absolutely right. You know, doing your monologues and posting it on a YouTube. And then when you get, you answer a call for an audition, they're like, Hey, do you have a monologue that we can see? Yes, here's my YouTube link. And that works.
Amora Brown (23:38):
Yeah. I think that's a really smart idea. And anyone that's looking to get into acting should consider taking maybe an hour out of your day to put in a little bit of work towards their creative goals. This was so wonderful to hear you give me this perspective and this information. And I'm just so grateful that you took time out of your day to chat with us.
Reg Clay (24:00):
Thank you so much and thank you for having me on. Thank you!